Talk:Receiving damage

Mechanics thread update
Need to update with mechanics post on the order of operation on minion damage shifts, object damage shifts, aegises, guard skills: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3123794

Hit & damage calculation order of effects

Damage conversion happens after "2) Avoiding the damage" and before "3) Mitigating the damage", correct? (relevant for Cloak of Flame and Darkscorn)

Melee

This page only really describes melee (attack) damage, it doesn't really help if you want to understand spells, minions or totems.

flat damage source

If anyone could add a source for flat damage reduction coming first in the damage taken calculation that'd be great.
 * Got it, there was another post I had in mind but couldn't find it, just a quote of it. --Raicss (talk) 16:26, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Order of damage calculations
Well, first of all it's not full and clear. Flat damage is affected by local modifiers, or, to be more precise, flat damage is damage after local mods are applied. Also there should be mentioned that at first additive modifiers (increase/reduce) apply, and then multiplicative (more/less). The order doesn't really matter but still.

Secondly, there is a fundamental mistake made by Vipermagi 3 years ago, which later has been inherited by wiki. There is no such thing as an order between converted to and added as because they are literally the same thing (for reference).

I'm not sure how to reflect all these changes, any ideas? &mdash; Freeeeez aka TheFrz – 02:42, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Life decrease
Please mention at "7. Taking the final damage" section -- if the game works that way -- that the life of the character is then decreased by the "final damage". (And zero or negative life means death.)

By the way, I did not found the EHP Calculator.

I think this page is incomplete and needs an update
Trying to reason with this page about some builds and game phenomenas of the latest versions is very difficult.

For example, Frostbreath dealing double damage against previously not chilled enemies on first hit and also freezes and splatters them, all with just 1 hit. Anyone who has played with a frostbreath knows that the first hit can already deal double damage on a previously nonchilled mob. That means that the ailment was inflicted during the damage calculation AND is active before the damage calculation of the same hit (that inflicted it) is at step 6. That also means that ailment infliction is part of the damage calculation itself, since it does affect the damage outcome of the same hit that inflicted it. It also means that double damage is rolled after the ailment infliction. I think we should make sense of this mess and update the wiki page accordingly so nobody ever again must go through this headache.

Also the "deal Double Damage" mod is missing completely on this page. We should add that.

I think we would do a lot of good with marking the exact point of on hit effects and ailment infliction in this scheme because they might be significant for the damage output of the same hit that inflicted it in first place. Also then it would make sense to everyone why mobs can freeze/splatter in one and the same hit. The only way for this to make sense is that the ailments/on hit curses are applied before the damage calculation of the hit that applied them is at step 7, the actual ehp loss.

So I think curses on hit/crit effects are applied after step 2 since they only require the data of the defender being hit/critted.

Next comes the nondamaging ailment infliction. Since all the non damaging ailments require the data of damage/dealt taken, step 5, their infliction must come after step 5. According to the block wiki page, nondamaging ailments can be blocked, therefor the game must decide before step 6 if an ailment is inflicted or not for deciding if its blocked or not.

Therefor the non damaging ailment infliction is sandwiched between step 5 and 6.

Double damage comes AFTER the nondamaging ailment infliction as we know from Frostbreath. Its hard to figure out if its rolled before or after Block since it does not make a difference currently anyway so I say its before block.

With this knowledge I think the wiki page should be updated like this:


 * At 2, there should be a 2.3 "inflicts curses/on hit/on crit effects"


 * At 5, the 3 orders of damage taken/dealt mods should be 5.1.


 * 5.2 should be non damaging ailment infliction*


 * 5.3 should be the roll for double damage.

I gonna change it like that now, if I am wrong somewhere, please tell me here and correct it.

What is still missing and would be very interesting to know is at what point of the damage calculation the damaging ailments are inflicted and that is a lot more complicated to figure out. It at least requires the evasion/dodge roll, so it might be after 2 already. Or maybe its at 5.2 like all ailments. No idea here and I am very curious about that.

The human tornado (talk) 18:46, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Damage Avoidance missing completely here
https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Avoidance

"Avoidance is a mechanic that stops the damage of a hit after block has failed."

So it is between 6. block and taking the 7. taking final damage. Also the avoidance mechanics tells us that the ailment infliction must come after the block check, since an ailment cannot be inflicted if it is avoided, therefor double damage also must come after block.

The human tornado (talk)