Talk:Master (Forsaken Masters)

Hideout
Hideout should be a different page - there's too much information that distracts from Masters here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ddh8 (talk • contribs) 16:18, 26 August 201 (UTC)
 * Isn't it already? Hideout —Vini (t|c) 16:29, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Master attitudes towards each other
Just for fun.

--Evil4Zerggin (talk) 09:46, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Is there a point to list the locations where they can appear?
I don't think there is a reason to list the location where the Masters' quests appear. I have seen the Masters appear in many locations that weren't listed and give completely different quests. How about removing the possible locations of Masters (leaving only the minimum level of area and noting that Zana can appear only in maps) and the possible locations of their quests, leaving only they types of quests they can give? The experience they give seems to be purely dependent on area level, not on the quest giver or the nature of the quest.

--DarkUknown 13:57, 31 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Yup, makes sense. I think people were adding them because there was a general uncertainty about where they can spawn. It seems that once you've reached the right area/area level, they'll pretty much spawn anywhere. Iamacyborg (talk) 15:41, 31 August 2014 (UTC)


 * That seems to be the case. I think it's safe to remove the table. —Vini (t|c) 17:08, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Gems and Master Level
Has anyone noticed any correlation between gem availability and master level? Seems like something that could be in place. Iamacyborg (talk) 15:43, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

General Overview
I redone this overview today to include most of the general features of the masters. I am a noob wiki table maker, can someone center align the Location column, eg Act 1, Act 2, Act 3. --1BLOOBERRY (talk) 16:11, 1 September 2014 (UTC) One more thing, can someone also make the "Master" bar/box on the same level as the other categories and make the "General Overview" stretch the entire table over the top. Thanks. --1BLOOBERRY (talk) 16:14, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Master mission experience
How about creating a page "Master Mission Experience" to put a list with area-levels and the amount of master experience gained from a mission in that area? Since GGG didn't implement something to simply write into the chat "x master experience points gained!" it's a bit hard to know how much exp you gained unless you write down the total value before and after the mission and calculate it yourself. E.g. when I did a mission in an area-level 48 area I took a screenshot before and after. The difference is 1759 points. This might help players to find areas to search for masters in which are best suited for their character's current level. //Hurri04 (talk) 16:09, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Edit: I just did another mission, this time in a level 72 area and gained 4675 points. With enough data it would be possible to create a graph and determine the function of these values.

Navbox Masters
I attempted to move this graphic to the top as it gives the page more "flavor". How can we rid the spoiler box surrounding it? This page would look alot better with that graphic for navigation. Any thoughts? --1BLOOBERRY (talk) 05:43, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Masters unique items for sale
"Thanks for contacting Support. I can't confirm if they can drop almost any unique, however I can confirm that they can drop unique items from outside their normal item types, which can include unique maps being sold by masters other than Zana."

Something about this should be included on the master unique items for sale section, people often argue about say, Haku can't sell a Shavs because it isn't listed on the wiki. just because no one has found it, What i gather from this is that all masters can sell any "normal" unique, excluding special cases such as song of the sirens, atziri uniques, recipe uniques etc (until found anyway) --eleziel 2 January 2015
 * I had a feeling that might be the case. Would it be best to merely say that masters can sell uniques and then list the general exceptions? Iamacyborg (talk) 13:04, 2 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Having the prices there is useful but there could just be a single list for all masters, possibly on the main Master page somewhere at the bottom and list the uniques that can't be sold by masters --eleziel 2 January 2015


 * Yep, and potentially also on the individual item page as well. Iamacyborg (talk) 16:05, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

I was making some statistics regarding the uniques they sell, trying to determine the probability that they'll have a unique. Assuming binomial distribution, the chance of getting a unique is 25% ± 5% (somewhere between 20% and 30%). Should I write it into the vendor column in reputation section (something like The chance is roughly 25%)? I'll update this once I get more data to decrease the uncertainty.--DarkUnknown (talk) 11:01, 18 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Is this only for successful missions? After my guild mate pointed it out to me, I started recording L8 missions for a while and we were getting around 33% uniques with successful missions but only about 10% with failed. That was a pretty small sample size, esp of the fails, but it seemed to be pointing towards mission sucess increasin the odds. --Qetuth-(talk) 05:35, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * The inventory is reset regardless of your performance and I did not consider the possibility that it might depend on it. I was recording any missions, I did not write down if they were successful or not. What you say could be true, I can't remember getting a unique after failing a mission, but that's just anecdotal evidence. --DarkUnknown (talk) 07:01, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * My results don't seem to match yours, but I still need more data. I can't conclude anything for failures (I haven't failed enough frequently), but for successes, the odds that they sell a unique seems to be 27% ± 4% (somewhere between 23% and 31%). I'll report later when I get more data. For a mix of successes and failures (unknown number of failures, but there are some), the result is 27% ± 2%, but that might be quite an inaccurate result. --DarkUnknown (talk) 09:19, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * More testing shows that the chance that they sell a unique item after success is 24% ± 2% (somewhere between 22% and 26%). For a mix of successes and failures (about 10% failures), it's 22 ± 1% (somewhere between 21% and 23%). I haven't recorded enough failures to have exact numbers about the chance to get a unique after failure (14% ± 17% is not a good statistic). So far, it seems that the chance to get a unique is indeed lower after a failure. --DarkUnknown (talk) 12:02, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

I have done a larger statistical study about the chance to get a unique from masters. If the mission is successful, the chance is 25% (my result was 24.9% ± 0.4%, probably a small systematic error reduced the result a tiny bit because I could have failed to notice the unique). If the mission isn't successful, the chance is significantly lower (8% ± 4%). It was by recording the outcomes of on 341 dailies. I think that these results are conclusive enough to be written somewhere on the page. --DarkUnknown (talk) 12:29, 1 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me. Possibly also include a link to your working so people can see how the conclusion has come about. Iamacyborg (talk) 14:36, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

This is my data so far (can't find a way to make a spoiler or something):

Success - None Success - None Success - Craghead Success - None Success - None Failure - Rebuke of the Vaal Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Ungil's Harmony Success - None Success - Forbidden Taste Success - None Failure - None Success - None Success - None Success - Dusktoe Success - None Success - Maelstrom of Chaos Success - None Success - Stone of Lazhwar Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Ungil's Gauche Success - Death's Harp Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Tabula Rasa Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Failure - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - The Three Dragons Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Failure - None Success - None Success - Nomic's Storm Success - None Success - None Failure - None Success - None Success - Lochtonial Caress Success - None Success - None Success - Goldrim Success - None Success - None Failure - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Rainbowstride Failure - None Success - Occultist's Vestinent Failure - None Success - None Success - Midnight Bargain Success - Belt of the Deceiver Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Hyrri's Bite Success - None Success - None Failure - None Success - None Success - Sentari's Answer Success - None Failure - None Success - None Success - None Success - Bones of Ullr Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Infernal Mantle Success - None Success - None Success - Chober Chaber Failure - None Success - None Success - Cloak of Defiance Success - None Success - Ondar's Clasp Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Redbeak Success - None Success - Wondertrap Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Dusktoe Success - Acton's Nightmare Success - None Success - Quill Rain Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - The Anvil Success - None Success - None Success - Infractem Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Failure - None Success - Doedre's Tenure Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Failure - None Success - Le Heup of All Success - Limbsplit Success - None Success - Araku Tiki Success - None Success - Lightbane Raiment Success - None Success - None Failure - Eye of Chayula Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - The Magnate Success - None Failure - None Success - Fairgraves' Tricorne Success - None Success - Voidhome Success - Death's Oath Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Doedre's Elixir Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Oro's Sacrifice Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Bloodboil Failure - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Wanderlust Success - None Success - None Success - Pyre Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Aurseize Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Failure - None Success - None Success - Nomic's Storm Success - None Success - None Success - Wurm's Molt Success - Heatshiver Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Shavronne's Pace Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Terminus Est Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - The Coward's Trial Success - None Success - Karui Ward Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Mokou's Embrace Success - None Success - Craghead Success - Brightbeak Success - Lochtonial Caress Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Quill Rain Success - None Success - Limbsplit Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Nomic's Storm Success - Saffell's Frame Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Lioneye's Paws Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Atziri's Mirror Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Sin Trek Success - None Success - None Failure - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Failure - None Success - None Success - None Success - Bronn's Lithe Failure - None Success - None Success - Kaltenhalt Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Zahndethus' Cassock Success - None Success - None Success - Ahsrend Success - None Success - None Success - Reverbation Rod Success - Perandus Blazon Success - Honourhome Success - Alpha's Howl Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - None Failure - None Success - None Success - None Success - Honourhome Success - None Success - None Success - None Success - Ondar's Clasp Success - None Success - None Success - Eye of Chayula Success - Lioneye's Paws Failure - None Success - None Success - Jaws of Agony Success - Dusktoe Success - None Failure - None Success - None Success - None Failure - None Success - None Failure - None Success - None Success - Wurm's Molt Success - None

If there was like 100 times more data, it could be possible the determine the probability what is the chance to get a specific unique if a unique is obtained.

I have also created this script to compute the probabilities automatically:

void readEntry(char* contents, char* result) { int pos; for (pos = 0; pos < MAX_LENGTH; pos++) { if (contents[pos] == '-') { pos++; while (contents[pos] == ' ') pos++; strcpy(result, contents + pos); unsigned int i; 			for (i = 0; i < MAX_LENGTH; i++) if (result[i] == '\n' || result[i] == '\r' || result[i] == ' ') { result[i] = 0; break; } 			break; } 	} } int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { 	FILE* file; if (argc == 1) { file = fopen ("probabilities.txt", "r"); printf("Reading file probabilities.txt...\n"); } 	else { file = fopen (argv[1], "r"); printf("Reading file %s...\n", argv[1]); } 	char contents[MAX_LENGTH]; int failures = 0; int successes = 0; int items_failures = 0; int items_successes = 0; while (fgets(contents, MAX_LENGTH, file) != NULL) { if (strstr(contents, "Success") || strstr(contents, "success") || strstr(contents, "S -") || strstr(contents, "s -") || strstr(contents, "S-") || strstr(contents, "s-")) { successes++; char result[MAX_LENGTH]; readEntry(contents, result); if (strcmp(result, "None") && strcmp(result, "none") && strcmp(result, "N") && strcmp(result, "n")) { items_successes++; } 		} 		if (strstr(contents, "Failure") || strstr(contents, "failure") || strstr(contents, "F -") || strstr(contents, "f -") || strstr(contents, "F-") || strstr(contents, "f-")) { failures++; char result[MAX_LENGTH]; readEntry(contents, result); if (strcmp(result, "None") && strcmp(result, "none") && strcmp(result, "N") && strcmp(result, "n")) { items_failures++; } 		} 	} 	fclose(file); float chance_after_success = (float)items_successes / (float)successes; float chance_after_failure = (float)items_failures / (float)failures; printf("After a success, the chance is (%.3g+-%.2g)%%\n", (chance_after_success * 100), 100 / ((1 - chance_after_success) * successes)); printf("After a failure, the chance is (%.3g+-%.2g)%%\n", (chance_after_failure * 100), 100 / ((1 - chance_after_failure) * failures)); return 0; }
 * 1) include 
 * 2) include 
 * 3) include 
 * 1) define MAX_LENGTH 50